Also on the suicide front, I read the following today that I found here: http://www.moonpointer.com/zeph/index.htm. I'm not encouraging going there, I'm just citing the source:

Please forget that idea entirely. Suicide means dying in fear and hate. The Buddha tells us the destination will be hell, which is a world which corresponds to the mindstate of fear and hate. When we overcome problems, we can only become stronger. If not, we remain weak.

Don't jump from the frying pan into the fire. If you think this is hell, killing yourself will only land you in REAL HELL.

People who end their lives LACK courage to face problems. Death will NOT end the problems. There will be rebirth and as long as lessons are not learnt, we face them again and again. What's worse is that when you build up the habit of running away, you might contemplate suicide again in a future life when you face similar difficulties. Make a resolution to NOT get caught in this vicious cycle!

Moralistic, self-righteous fucker. This is exactly the linear, literal thinking that gives me a twitch when confronted by normative, mundane, not-very-well-thought-out-or-inspired generalizations and interpretations of organized religion.

- Suicide might mean dying in fear and hate, but not necessarily so. Whether dying in fear and hate is better or worse than living in fear and hate is anyone's opinion.
- "The Buddha" also "tells us" that women cannot attain enlightenment.
- Who gives a shit what the Buddha tells us, what do you tell yourself? They are the same.
- Overcoming problems can make us weaker. Not overcoming problems can make us stronger (or might be needed to make us stronger).
- There is no difference between hell and REAL hell. Once you find yourself in REAL hell, what if you find there is a REAL REAL hell?
- If you can't figure out the rest of my commentary on what he wrote yourself, stop reading my fucking blog (just kidding, I'm just lazy (please keep reading my fucking blog, oh please, please, please)).

No wait, don't be lazy:
- People who end their lives aren't the only people who LACK courage to face problems. Everyone has their own path to discover and challenge their problems or not. Suicides aren't special except to the extent that society vilifies them.
- Society's inability to empathize with and show compassion and understanding without pity or moral indignation and superiority towards suicides might show a LACK of courage on the part of society to truly engage the complex issues of life, death, self and identity that suicides intimately have to deal with.
- Death will NOT end the problems. Life also will NOT end the problems. What's your point?
- People who do not believe in rebirth are not reborn. Imposing Hindu, Buddhist and related ideas of rebirth on those who don't believe in it is just as bad as Christians telling you you're going to burn in hell for not proclaiming the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal friend and sole saviour. The flip side of that, which is also true, is that they will be reborn and you will burn in hell. (I'm still trying to work that one out, though).
- The rest I have no problem with, except for his calling it "worse". That's his personal judgment, but again, we have our own paths for better or worse. What he considers "worse" might turn out to be a viable stepping stone for someone else.

Personally, I think the true "Buddhist" way of confronting the issue of suicide is to counsel against it and discourage it, but compassion and humility suggests withholding personal biases and moralistic judgments and what are essentially opinions. Assuming a high moral ground and making sweeping statements about universal truths and burning in hell is not particularly compassionate.

When confronted with the issue of suicide, whether it's one's own or someone else's, it's a challenge to you, and this person's hypothetical response, in my own opinion, would be a failure in many cases. There might be people who would hear that and decide against it. Obviously not suicidal, though.

Better to just say "don't do it". That's all you need to say. All that other moralistic crap is just offensive and is not going to stop anyone from committing suicide because it simply dismisses everything that has led the person to consider suicide, and that is not a way to deal with it.

"Don't do it", and let them find for themselves within themselves whether to do it or not.

"Don't do it" puts it in their mind doing it or not doing it, encouraging not doing it, and the wheels are set in motion. Whatever reasons a suicide has, it comes down to "do it or not do it", and that's a hard precipice in itself to stand on.

"Don't do it", and don't be attached yourself to someone else "doing it" or "not doing it".

Anyway, this is all a knee-jerk reaction to that one post. I admit that I didn't read the whole site to get a better idea where he's coming from, or if it even is a 'he', and I may be putting just as much on him just to forward my own soapbox ranting.