I don't like publicly opining about political or controversial matters because the discussion can just go on and on, with no one listening to each other to come to some middle ground. People just want to spew their view to dominate and call each other names when all else fails.

Commenters on my earlier post helped put a fine point on this frustration, but also let me flesh out my opinion from that post which I cut off because I knew it could go on and on...

In case you missed it, since there is no facial indication on this blog that comments have been left:

Comments:
What do you mean you don't condemn the cartoons? The Whole World is upset because of those racist fools. And you are saying you don't condemn them?
It is very sad to see people like this.
# posted by Muslim Unity : 1:48 PM

I didn't say I don't condemn the cartoons, I said I don't condemn the publications, the act of exercising free speech.

And I actually don't condemn the cartoons, per se, because I am not Muslim and I don't have standing to condemn them or to personally understand why they should be condemned. That Muslims prohibit images of the Prophet is an internal matter of religion. However, I also don't condone the cartoons because of what I wrote in the post.

I don't condemn anyone. Everyone has a reason for what they do, and if we had grown up in similar circumstances in which they had, we might do the exact same thing. I do think it is unfortunate that the publishers did not foresee the impact of their actions, however, it is equally unfortunate that a few Muslims have resorted to violence, and I hope that the Muslim World will direct its energy from being upset into positive action.

Muslims can use this opportunity to discuss amongst themselves to make sure they understand deeply why images of the Prophet are prohibited, not just because it is what they were told, but how it goes to the core of Islam and their Islamic faith. Muslims should also prepare themselves to be able to explain to non-Muslims why they are so upset, but also to listen to the arguments protecting free speech.

From my experience with Muslims and what they have told me, it seems that all Muslims should be condemning the violence, as well as the cartoons.

I abhore racism and growing up in the U.S., obviously I have felt the sting of it at all stages of my life. Racism certainly is as present as it ever has been. However, I am wary of blanket cries of wolf calling racism without a clear indication that race-based discrimination was present. If the cartoon was a negative portrayal of the Buddha, Asians would not be justified in saying it was racist. If the cartoon was a negative portrayal of Arabs or Asians or blacks, that would be racist. Maybe the Dutch publishers are racist, but I have not seen actual evidence of it, so I cannot agree with calling them "racist fools".

I agree it is very sad to see people not even making an attempt to live in peace on however small level is in their control.
# posted by keauxgeigh : 4:21 PM

Why shouldn't they have run these cartoons? What makes Muslims beyond criticism? What next - do we shoot Doonesbury?

If there is no genuine issue or point of discussion that comes out of these cartoons, if they are no more than a type of baseless hate crime, then WHY are so many Muslims reacting by bombing and threatening to bomb anything Danish?

The Danes weren't violent. These Musllim extremists are. If the Islamic faith as a religion wants my support, I want to see at least make an effort made to stop and silence the gangsters who continually use this religion as a shield for their crimes and an excuse for their abject and violent intolerance.

I think all the Danish newspapers were trying to do was show all of us - Muslim or not - what the Islamic extremists do to this faith. And no, it ain't pretty.
# posted by Moose Hunter : 5:45 PM

Lovely, just lovely. People commenting who didn't even read my post.

This is fun, maybe I should write more posts on polar, politicized issues where no one cares what the other side is saying.

I didn't mean they shouldn't have run the cartoons because of some external force telling them not to. Now, having done so in the name of free speech, I understand if they refuse to apologize, although realistically it would be nice if they apologized to stop further violence. The principle and dogma of free speech will survive even with an apology. I just feel it's more important now to put an end to the violence.

When I say they shouldn't have published the cartoons, I mean it internally, as human conscience. They could have foreseen the outcome and said, yes, free speech is important, but in today's climate, it is more important not to incite violence and put lives at risk. This may be idealistic, but I hope these points aren't brushed off just because they're idealistic.

Nothing makes Muslims beyond criticism, no one is beyond criticism, I've been searching my post for where I said that, but I am at a loss.

No I don't think Doonesbury should be shot. Berkeley Breathed, on the other hand, is a different story.

Your next point might be better if you focused it more and made it less rhetorical.

I think all Muslims would like to see the extremists reigned in. On the other hand, I don't see Christians doing a whole lot to reign in the conservative, evangelical right wing Christians, whose violence is in a different form, but nonetheless violence.

I don't think Islamic extremists need the Dutch press to show us - Muslim or not - what they do to Islam. They do a fine job at it themselves, and no, it ain't pretty. Finally, I can agree with you.
# posted by keauxgeigh : 7:03 PM

Grow up. You preach about sensibilities and in the end you are simply cowed by violence. Are you only willing to defend your rights in a pillow fight?

A simple "No offence intended" was all that was called for here. As for your rant about the shortcomings of Christians - DOH. What's that got to do with anything?

Your postings reminds me of the "blame the victim" habit that has become so popular with liberals.
# posted by Moose Hunter : 11:24 AM

I choose not to grow up. The world of adults is nothing to strive for, as that is where the violence seems to be promoted and taking place. I'll take the implication that I haven't grown up as a compliment, so thank you.

It is fine for you to believe that I am cowed by violence. I don't want to be a victim of violence. It is not pleasant. I will however speak up for freedom whenever there is a chance that someone will listen. If no one is listening, then I won't say anything that will incite violence. Nor will I pretend to be a martyr.

I am not only willing to defend my rights in a pillow fight, there are other forums where I would, but a pillow fight would be a wonderful forum in which to do so! Great idea. Bring it on, BYOP. I warn you though, I have one of those big "huggie" pillows.

You appear to be very passionate and serious about this issue, more so than I am. If you leave any more comments, please do so while signed in so people can go to your forum. I'm not calling you one since I don't know you well enough, but it is generally held in this type of forum that people who post inflammatory political opinions without identifying themselves are cowards who are unwilling to open their own views to scrutiny.

You mean I should have said "No offense intended" to you? I really did not mean any offense, neither to Muslims or supporters of the Danish. So, no offense intended, however, I will speak my views and defend them, and I suspect that they will offend both sides, as you can see from Muslim Unity's comment.

I would hardly call that little one sentence tag about Christians a "rant". More of an observation. Interesting calling it a shortcoming, I hadn't intended it that way since many Christians don't consider that stance a shortcoming at all. I can't say "no offense intended" about that, though. It was a joke, but so were the cartoons.

When everyone is doing the blaming, and everyone posits themselves as the victim, it is very difficult to avoid the "blame the victim" habit. It's still better than the "kill the victim" habit that is so popular with conservatives. Oh, I meant that to be snarky, but it turns out that I mean it.
# posted by keauxgeigh : 2:14 PM

iTunes soundtrack:
1. You Must Meet My Wife ("A Little Night Music" - Sondheim) ("She'd strike you as unenlightened"//"No, I'd strike her first")
2. Old Old Song (Ani DiFranco)
3. Clap Hands (live) (Tom Waits)
4. Soldier (Neil Young)
5. Of the Girl (Pearl Jam)
6. Watch that Man (live) (David Bowie)
7. Bang Bang Bang (The Aislers Set)
8. Judas My Heart (Belly)
9. The Right Profile (The Clash)
10. The Passenger (Siouxsie & the Banshees)