August 28; 11:25 AM:
Hello Koji. Just wanted to say hello and thank you and I love you. love, madoka
Me:
August 28; 3:55 PM:
I love you, too!! I sometimes meditate on that love and it brings comfort in the storm of existence and thoughts. You're wonderful and often in my thoughts.
Her:
August 31; 6:34 PM:
Hi Koji, I just returned from 3 days at a zen temple and am now seeing your message. The temple was good. If that love brings some comfort, that makes me happy. You're wonderful and very special.
Me:
September 1; 2:50 AM:
I'm glad you had a good retreat. Reminds of the best times at Deer Park. Which then leads to why I left, but that's another story, nevermind, keep doing good!
Her:
September 1; 7:42 AM:
The temple I go to has a live-in dormitory for lay people. I've thought about moving there, but haven't due to a couple rules I'm not ready to follow. You have to commit to living there for 6 months (which would be ok), but you have to return every night by 9pm and cannot spend nights elsewhere. This would make it impossible for me to attend my meditation teacher's retreats and Friday night classes. So, I don't live there. But I really like the people there. I don't particularly enjoy the retreats, as my ankles and knees always start screaming after the 1st day, making thinking about my koans close to impossible, but even still, I feel something peeling away every time, so I go. Glad your pinky is doing better. love you, madoka
Me:
September 3; 1:56 AM:
I guess perhaps everywhere has its rules for their own reasons and you just have to make your own choices. Why are you experiencing pain when you're like a yoda master. I mean yoga master. Like a yoga yoda. If it's interfering, can't you just change to a simpler, non-painful position?
Her:
September 3; 6:55 AM:
Haven't quite got to the yoda level I actually don't do yoga asana that much. I hardly teach it anymore either. And I do change into a simpler position, but after the 2nd day, any cross legged position hurts. I think my hips, quads and ankles are tight...so, maybe I should do more asana. I actually started jogging on occasion because I need to lose weight. ha ha.
Me:
September 4; 2:54 AM:
Hm, that's not right. You mentioned pain before on retreat but I thought you were exercising hyperbole and humility(!). So even Burmese position is painful. Do they have and allow meditation stools in Japan? They're available in some U.S. meditation centers and take lode off of legs in cross-legged positions by raising center of gravity. In extreme cases, some places, including Deer Park, allow for sitting in chairs albeit not ideal. Otherwise, do you have a strategy in targeting and identifying the pain and dealing with the source? When my left Achilles tendon tore a week after joining a gym (on your birthday if I recall) and then the right one was proving to be weak, I enjoyed the challenge of figuring out a regimen of recovery and strengthening. After over 3 months, today I did my first 5K at an OK pace without a brace. So when you sit, in what position is it theoretically completely comfortable for the entire retreat? Also, when pain occurs, where is the pressure coming from and what alleviates it? Physical pain can be a distraction from mental focus, so this is pretty important. Don't just endure it. Also, have you identified a point when you realize physical therapy might be needed? Like my pinky still hurts, but it was an extreme bruise so I'm giving it a little leeway. But I am aware that if pain persists, I'll have to consider nerve damage, meaning having to figure out the whole annoying doctor thing. love always!
Her:
September 6; 3:14 PM:
Hi Koji, Thanks for the questions. If I am in so much pain that I cannot stand it, I can ask for a stool, but at this point, I think I would have to have an injury, since I've made it through without a stool for the past 5 years. They don't allow Burmese position at the temple I go to. I should probably do a more rigorous physical program to increase flexibility in my hips. One of my friends from zazen is a physical therapist...maybe I'll ask her for some suggestions too. It is kind of ironic for a yoga teacher to have this much trouble sitting...but I guess when it comes to the physical practice, I am on the negligent side. That is changing a bit though...recently the stagnation in my body and mind are clearing up a bit, and I'm moving more.
I don't think I know a position that would be theoretically comfortable for the whole retreat... I have to go now, but maybe I'll take a look at this a little more closely later. love, madoka
Me:
September 9; 1:54 AM:
OK,
I see. So the pain for the past five years hasn't been so bad. Minimal
to no mental distraction, able to keep reasonable meditative focus (not
that I know what that is). Pain? What pain?
I'm perplexed by a lot of what you said, but I trust your approach to your experience and am hesitant to question it.
I'm not as tough as you. Whatever pain I feel I try to identify it and strategize how to deal with it (without involving doctors, of course). I'm also not as humble as you, a lot more arrogant and self-cherishing. Like I would have nothing to do with a monastery that discriminated against sitting positions or would only allow for stools if an injury were involved. That's too much emphasis on form and a lack of compassion and loving-kindness for my tastes (my interpretation). Your enduring the pain may indicate non-attachment to it? Very high level?
But maybe it wouldn't hurt to consult the physical therapist and be proactive about dealing with the pain. Mind and body connection. The physical pain energy may be connected to or sympathetic with some mental energy. Listen to yourself. love you
I'm perplexed by a lot of what you said, but I trust your approach to your experience and am hesitant to question it.
I'm not as tough as you. Whatever pain I feel I try to identify it and strategize how to deal with it (without involving doctors, of course). I'm also not as humble as you, a lot more arrogant and self-cherishing. Like I would have nothing to do with a monastery that discriminated against sitting positions or would only allow for stools if an injury were involved. That's too much emphasis on form and a lack of compassion and loving-kindness for my tastes (my interpretation). Your enduring the pain may indicate non-attachment to it? Very high level?
But maybe it wouldn't hurt to consult the physical therapist and be proactive about dealing with the pain. Mind and body connection. The physical pain energy may be connected to or sympathetic with some mental energy. Listen to yourself. love you
Her:
September 12; 10:41 AM:
I can't say the pain is minimal to no mental distraction. It's quite a distraction. I don't know if it is because I am a wimp, or because it is actually that painful. But I do get distracted. The temple I go to is probably among the more strict for laypeople. The way I see it is, their rules are not so that we focus on form, but so that we let go of all the preconceived notions we have about wanting to do things our own way, or the way we think is better...and it allows for people to stop thinking about form when form is predetermined. But, if I need to relax my legs and loosen the position, I don't get hit with a stick. I haven't felt that they are being unreasonable. I don't know if my enduring the pain is high level...it's more like resignation? Every time I go to the temple, it gets a little bit easier. But just a bit. ha ha.
But, I agree, it wouldn't hurt to consult a physical therapist. It may be related to something mental/emotional too, but I haven't quite figured that out yet.
love, madoka
Me:
September 15; 12:55 AM:
Hm, so you're not at so high a level? That's a bit of a disappointment. Rare for you. But everyone should disappoint every once in a while. I'm workin' on it. (that's all totally a joke, mind you).
Truth to
tell I'm at a loss for words at your description of the temple and
rules. Yea, I'm not even going to go there. Not my business. Except to
say, for myself, that I'm fairly confident that my own way that I think
is better for me, preconceived or ego-driven or not, is decidedly better
than whatever their way is (even if their way was to immediately
transport me to enlightenment). Go fig (also may be why I'm not a monk
nor have a master). But if their way agrees with your way, I have no
comment or criticism. (this is all totally not a joke, just to be
clear).
To the main subject matter, pain is subjective; not about being a wimp. I don't know if this is anything, if it's nothing just throw it away, but after what you said about the pain and that it is a distraction, what I would theoretically suggest to someone is to stop being distracted by the pain and make it the focus of meditation (already I think that's going wrong with you since you're supposed to be focusing on your koan). But I would tell a theoretical person to make friends with the pain, concentrate on it, treat it with loving-kindness, get comfortable with it, offer it tea. You're supposed to be focusing on your koan, but you can't because the pain is calling your attention, so say, 'ok, you want my attention, I'm going to give you attention and sit here with you and figure out why you're here when you're not supposed to be'. Get to know it, all the nuances and angles of how the pain feels as a sensation; even displace the pain and imagine what it would feel like in other parts of your body. Important, though, is to not associate it as "bad". Don't attach to it or be averse to it as something bad. Just focus on the pain as a sensation without judgment. All the while consulting the physical therapist and dealing with the source rather than just enduring it.
The temple may say that I'm full of shit. So be it. I am a little constipated.
much love, koji
To the main subject matter, pain is subjective; not about being a wimp. I don't know if this is anything, if it's nothing just throw it away, but after what you said about the pain and that it is a distraction, what I would theoretically suggest to someone is to stop being distracted by the pain and make it the focus of meditation (already I think that's going wrong with you since you're supposed to be focusing on your koan). But I would tell a theoretical person to make friends with the pain, concentrate on it, treat it with loving-kindness, get comfortable with it, offer it tea. You're supposed to be focusing on your koan, but you can't because the pain is calling your attention, so say, 'ok, you want my attention, I'm going to give you attention and sit here with you and figure out why you're here when you're not supposed to be'. Get to know it, all the nuances and angles of how the pain feels as a sensation; even displace the pain and imagine what it would feel like in other parts of your body. Important, though, is to not associate it as "bad". Don't attach to it or be averse to it as something bad. Just focus on the pain as a sensation without judgment. All the while consulting the physical therapist and dealing with the source rather than just enduring it.
The temple may say that I'm full of shit. So be it. I am a little constipated.
much love, koji
We're certainly not on the same page anymore. Her last message screamed "cult". One of the most strict for laypeople? Their rules are meant for people to let go of preconceived notions of doing things any other way but their own? Their way allows for not thinking about form when it's pre-determined . . . but replaces it with their own idea of form? She doesn't feel that they are being unreasonable. So not allowing for positions that would make sitting meditation easier and painless is reasonable.
