Response #27, edited for syntax and grammar and brevity:

Date: 2003-09-25, 4:14PM

I agree with a couple of seemingly opposing "sides" to the argument.

1) For/to me, in principle, suicide is my choice - my body, my life. The idea that it's actually a crime to take one's life is absurd in so many ways.

2) For/to me, being physically disabled and in chronic physical pain (with the attendant psychological pain), and believing in the right to end one's life based on the pain being too much to bear, I can easily transfer this belief over to mental/emotional/spiritual pain.

We all suffer physical pain, yes? Some of us only moments here and there - and way at the other end, some of us all the time. If you believe in "assisted suicide" for physical illness, where do YOU draw the line? How do YOU decide, "This person isn't in ENOUGH pain to be allowed to go, but maybe that person is” or “This physical condition doesn't merit the choice, but that one does." It's a complex issue, but ultimately it comes down to the choice of the person in pain.

Some people experience the "usual/norm", the "human condition" kind of suffering in their minds/hearts/spirits. Some suffer on and off, here and there, to greater or lesser degrees. Some folks, for whatEVER reason(s), suffer a lot, chronically. And this seemingly never-ending, overwhelming, beyond any therapeutic measures physical pain, can seem/be unbearable. I believe that if I am at that threshold, I have the right to step on over.

3) I also concur that suicide is "the ultimate form of liberation". But I, too, in my lifelong struggle with depression, have often veered AWAY from taking my life BECAUSE I felt I had the right/freedom to move on if I wanted to! That belief reassured me that I wasn't trapped, imprisoned by anyone else's controls. That consoled me, relaxed, relieved me. And that's cool.

4) Life is precious. I don't actually want to lose it. Wanting to go (FOR ME) ISN'T because I do not appreciate the gift/blessing of life - it's because I can't bear some kind of pain - not because I don't want to be here, but actually because I can't bear being here with such ACUTE sensitivity to life AND such pain.

I don't have a primal taboo against suicide because I believe that THIS life/planet/timespacecontinuum isn't the ONLY one there is or ever will be! It's all energy changing from one form to another, on and on. I can relax, there will be many other "lives" to live, "I" (my soul/spirit/energy) won't ultimately cease to exist.

But yes, I'd rather stay - AND I'd rather be relatively free of excruciating pain while here! It's a hard balance.

5) I also think of the pain that would be generated by my departure - yes, that too keeps me here at times when I'd rather not be. However, I don't believe the choice of suicide is in and of itself a totally "selfish" thing (selfish in that there is no concern for others) - because I DO believe that we are all connected. No matter how seemingly few people are in my life, how seemingly little effect my presence may have, I realize my absence would create ripples.

And I shudder at the thought of leaving loved ones with the grief, anger, despair, misunderstanding etc. that my departure might cause. I would never want to move on with that legacy left behind me ... ending my pain leading to the perpetuation of others'.

For me, some things in life are simple, but not easy. This topic is neither. And this brings me to an enormous respect for the desire to take one's life. People confronted with suicide, on whatever "sides", deserve a lot more than absolutes, goading, fury, self-righteousness, dismissiveness, condemnation, rejection, other's own ego'ed motivations, from us.

Truth to tell, I didn’t read this whole response through until I had to comment on it because it was just too verbose and convoluted to get through. I think this person is extremely complicated and intelligent, and is therefore very specific about the language he uses, but hasn’t learned to self-edit and be concise, and in the end that just mucks it up. I know because I suffer from that a lot, and I strive to always simplify. So in editing this response, it was my aim to make it readable since I agree with his points. FOR/TO ME, this response is worth reading carefully to take it in.